Fahrenheit 9/11

yeah, matty... i see amputies and stories/photos of bombings and wounded iraqees everyday in the news... i've seen plenty of pissed off families complaining loudly too. I've also seen a lot of sensationalism in the news about how horrible it is or how much iraq's people hate is which don't really measure up to the people i've talked to that have been over there.

But moore's flogging a dead horse isn't he? he hates the war, he hates bush, he wants him out... does the film offer any solutions to the problem? does it pinpoint exactly what went wrong and how it could have been done properly (actual analysis, not just war sucks, say no to war or other generics)? or does it just show lots of images meant to upset people for sheer shock value?

on a side note, i'd like to thank everyone on the few political threads for not resorting to flames and name calling so far... usually that happens pretty fast for certain topics ;)

Moore is an ambulance chasing puke.

10's of thousands were out of work in the Auto Industry and what does he do? Makes a movie and makes a tone of money and fame.

2 Crazy kids in Columbine kill many kids and to motifies the community and the nation and what does Moore do? Makes a movie and makes a tone of money and fame.

3,500 plus people are killed in the Twin Towers and close to 1000 in this war and what does Moore do? You guessed it. Makes a movie and makes a tone of money and fame.

I bet he's at home wishing for another American tradagy he can capitalize on.

You think he is hoping more for a Nuclear Plant to be struck by the terrorists or maybe California to fall into the sea?

He's a man with no honor and none of my respect as a man or a human being.

But that's just my opinion.

peace to you bro
mike

AH, to live in interesting times! Man, do I miss the 90's when all we cared about was blow jobs and a blue dress...

Satirist, political pundit, self-promoting opportunist, gifted film-maker, jerk, self-hating American, all of the above, whatever you want to say about the guy, he gets people talking. He's won the Academy award, the Palm D'or, he created the biggest grossing documentary film ever, etc. Somebody out there likes him, and it's not JUST the French. I think he's preaching to the choir here, and in a rather shrill tone, but that seems to be the order of the day. Civility is out; diatribes are in. It's an election year in wartime.

Sammy fan: I kinda liked Roger and Me. Do you really think he made that one just for money and fame?

I haven't seen F 911, and I'm not sure if I will, at least in the theatre. But I read that the best part (far better than the Bush-Osama stuff) is when he's dealing with soldiers and their families. Is that true, Matty? What is that like?

Matty,

I strongly disagree with your statement that the media is one-sided. The media is one-dimensional in the sense that they sensationalize, obscure facts to make a compelling story, oversimplify everything, and generally appeal to the lowest common denominator, but they are far from one-sided.

Fox news is unquestionably conservative, but the rest of the "mainstream" TV media is very, very liberal. Bush is strongly disliked by just about everyone in the media. Just about every TV anchor and TV producer supports democrats. Op-ed pieces in the NY Times, Washington Post, and LA Times (arguably the three big newspapers) always endorse democratic candidates in presidential and congressional races. Talk radio is unquestionably conservative. Hollywood is very, very liberal. So, I'm not sure how you can say that the media is one sided (conservative or liberal).

As for Michael Moore, I'm going to see his latest since he's entertaining. I liked Roger and Me and Bowling for Columbine, so I'll see F9/11. However, I'm going to take his film as entertainment and nothing more. He does not make bold faced lies; he makes misleading insinuations, exaggerates, cherry-picks the facts, oversimplifies the complex, and makes no effort to be objective (even if an objective approach leads him to an anti-war conclusion). In sum, he's just like President Bush.

For example, in Bowling for Columbine, do you remember the nuclear missile plant scene. HE was interviewing a man working at a missile plant and asked him where he thought Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris came about to use violence. The man, who had a missile behind him, said no. Funny stuff. But, what Moore didn't say was that the missile plant didn't produce ballistic missiles designed to deliver nukes; the missiles delivered sattelites to space.

Another example of how Moore misleads his audiences can be found in F9/11. Granted, I have not seen the movie, but I have seen interviews in which he discusses the movie. He goes to great lengths to make some insinuation that because the Bush Administratin had links to the Bin laden family. What the fuck does that mean? Is he saying that Bush wanted 9/11 to happen? Is he saying he was in cohoots with Osama? OF course not. Instead, he tries to make the audience associate Bush with Bin Laden. What he doesn't mention is that it was Dick Clarke, who Moore calls an American hero, was the man who ordered the Bin Laden family out of the country. Does Moore think Dick Clarke was "in on a conspiracy?" Then why is he an American hero after he attacks Bush? Clarke was an anti-terrorism expert. Do you think Clarke was an Al Qaeda operative?

Moreover, Moore made no mention that all 135 Saudis who were allowed to leave the country were checked to see if they were on any terrorist watchlist. Moreover 30 of the 135 Saudis were interviewed by FBI agents.

Also, Moore fails to mention how big the Bin laden family is. Osama is one of what, 40 siblings? Also, the Bin Laden family is perhaps the most influential family, outside of the royals, in Saudi Arabia. Therefore, anyone doing business in Saudi Arabia is likely to deal with the Bin Ladens, in one capacity or another, at some point. Finally, the Bin Laden family has publicly repudiated Osama's activities. Some of the "Evil" Bin Ladens the Bush administration, or actually Dick Clarke, let out of the country were respected members of the Harvard community who donated millions to the school.

Moore's funny, not politically astute, honest, or objective.

yeah, matty... i see amputies and stories/photos of bombings and wounded iraqees everyday in the news... i've seen plenty of pissed off families complaining loudly too.
you'll see plenty of stuff in this movie that you definitely do not see on TV, trust me

I find it kinda funny how quickly we turned our attention away from Bin Laden and instead went after Saddam, despite the fact we have never found any weapons of mass destruction.

The truth is we'll never find Bin Laden, why? Because we're not trying to.

So where are these weapons that Saddam had anyway? Weren't they a huge reason we went in there in the first place? So now that we can't find them (because they didn't have any to start with) we instead hear the administration write it off with excuses, 'well, the world is a safer place now that Saddam is out'. Is it really though?? Anti-american sentiment is more heated than ever. The middle east is still a war zone, americans are still being killed, beheaded, etc. 911 was this administrations' perfect excuse to invade Iraq so baby bush could seek revenge for his daddy. He wanted to go in there before 911, so this was a convenient reason to justify it.

Bush is dragging the U.S. down the crapper. I really don't understand people that can stand by and support this buffoon.

Did anyone catch it when Bush totally butchered trying to pronounce 'Abu Ghraib'??

Just embarrassing, man. Totally embarrassing that this is the leader of the free world.

Why is Moore not allowed to make money off his work? That somehow discounts what he does? Because he makes a living off it?? I've never understood that arguement.

So is he somehow worse than some rich CEO who doesn't give two shits about his employees and moves operations out of the US and deserts the community that helped make him successful?

At least Moore is out there trying to be part of the solution. I just don't understand the excuse that Moore is somehow in the wrong because he makes money.

That's always the two cracks on Moore I hear from people who are against him. They either crack on his weight or the fact he makes money from his work. Both excuses are pretty lame in my book.

Moore's profits are nothing compared to what US corperations stand to make off the rebuilding of Iraq. That's the real crime. And meanwhile we the taxpayers will be picking up the war tab for generations to come, while the corporations will profit and on top of that, not pay taxes.

I have no doubt that Bush is a poor President. However, the more the rest of the world talks about how Bush is stupid, and how Americans are dumb for supporting him, the less likely I am to vote for Kerry.

I especially hate it when Europe lectures us about how we lecture others and are too arrogant. The Europeans talk about liberty, freedom, and how they are against American Imperialism. Yeah, they are ones to talk. France has no business lecturing us about how to treat the rest of the world. France pissed on North Africa and Indochina for so long, I don't think they have the right to tell us shit. Their occupation forces were far less gentle than ours are (and ours aren't always nice).

Everytime some moron in Paris waves a Communist flag or Palestinian flag whenever Bush goes to Europe, I want to contribute some extra dollars to Bush 2004.

Another example of how Moore misleads his audiences can be found in F9/11. Granted, I have not seen the movie, but I have seen interviews in which he discusses the movie. He goes to great lengths to make some insinuation that because the Bush Administratin had links to the Bin laden family. What the fuck does that mean? Is he saying that Bush wanted 9/11 to happen? Is he saying he was in cohoots with Osama? OF course not. Instead, he tries to make the audience associate Bush with Bin Laden. What he doesn't mention is that it was Dick Clarke, who Moore calls an American hero, was the man who ordered the Bin Laden family out of the country. Does Moore think Dick Clarke was "in on a conspiracy?" Then why is he an American hero after he attacks Bush? Clarke was an anti-terrorism expert. Do you think Clarke was an Al Qaeda operative?

The Bush and Bin Laden families have an undeniably strong relationship. It's been well documented in several publications. One of the better reads being here, I highly suggest this book. Moore isn't "trying" to associate Bush with the Bin Laden family, he's only pointing out the obvious.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/074325337X/qid=1088291685/sr=2-2/ref=sr_2_2/103-3833522-5234212

Why is Moore not allowed to make money off his work? That somehow discounts what he does? Because he makes a living off it?? I've never understood that arguement.

So is he somehow worse than some rich CEO who doesn't give two shits about his employees and moves operations out of the US and deserts the community that helped make him successful?

At least Moore is out there trying to be part of the solution. I just don't understand the excuse that Moore is somehow in the wrong because he makes money.

That's always the two cracks on Moore I hear from people who are against him. They either crack on his weight or the fact he makes money from his work. Both excuses are pretty lame in my book.

Moore's profits are nothing compared to what US corperations stand to make off the rebuilding of Iraq. That's the real crime. And meanwhile we the taxpayers will be picking up the war tab for generations to come, while the corporations will profit and on top of that, not pay taxes.

making money off the misfortunes of others is wrong no matter who's profitting from it. and how is perpetuating the rift between the two main political parties a solution?
and we turned our attention away to a degree from bin laden because saddam was more accesible. plus we don't know with a 100% certainty that bin laden is still alive.
and yes some us corperations r going to make money from the rebuilding of iraq but so will some european nations as well and allowing the iraqi people to finally control their most valuable oil exports will not only help the us but the entire world against the oil strangle hold OPEC holds over the world. people talk about Bush being a oil hungry "tyrannt" and that may be so to an extent but he's nothing compared to OPEC.
I'd like to know when it was exactly that europe as a collective started hating the us. the hatred/jealousy was there before the latest war in iraq 2. That entire continent would be under one flag if it wasn't for what our country did for them both finacelly and militarily. As u said ramseyfan the British and the french as well as the spainards have no room to preach on the etiquite of imperalism.
right now our country is seen in a bad light by the world mostly because of our current administration, but I have honestly seen or heard nothing from kerry that tells me we'll be any better under an administration lead by him.