Im done....Gibbs must go.

We're 20-28 since Gibbs came back. Currently we have the same record as Green Bay, Houston, and Cleveland and only Oakland, Detroit, Tampa (who beat us), and Arizona have a worse record than us. Only 9 teams score fewer points than we do and only 6 teams allow more points than we do. We commit too many penalties and we give up too many big plays. I barely trust whatever kicker we happen to be starting on a given week to make an extra point, much less a 35+ yarder. This team seems to have no direction from week to week in terms of how it wants to play offense. We've run the same reverse play from the same spot on the field 3 weeks in a row. The entire defense spends every timeout and commercial break dancing around to the same the same 2 songs that they play over and over at FedEx rather than discussing what play they should run. And yesterday on 4th down and goal with time running out Gibbs was motioning to Campbell to spike the ball because we had jsut ran on 3rd and got stuffed (I don't know if they showed that on TV but we could see it from the stands).

I said it earlier in the season: we need to forget about what Joe Gibbs did for us in the 80's because it's almost 2007 and this team looks like it's going nowhere. I'm not saying he needs to get fired, but he needs to tighten up and we all need to stop giving him a free pass from everyone here for what he did last century.

and that's my rant

well said!

Ohh so now Ive gone from a lone voice to representing 40% of all Skins fans? Wow! Put an unbiased poll up as to who is to blame for the current state of the Skins and we'll see what happens.

I meant lone dissenting voice sarcastically, sorry it doesn't translate well.

Ohh so now Ive gone from a lone voice to representing 40% of all Skins fans? Wow! Put an unbiased poll up as to who is to blame for the current state of the Skins and we'll see what happens.

The poll is going to be very simple, should Gibbs be fired yes or no. That's what our disagreement is about, correct?

You honestly think you are in the majority of Skins fans? HA! Several people have piped up support, the others don't wanna endure an attack the way I have. And when I said "Im done" it meant I was done supporting Joe Gibbs and a system that DOES NOT WORK! Everytime someone questions the decisions of this inept coaching staff Matt and Company come riding to the defense and try to bully them off the board. Im in the minority? Right.

So which is though? Are you done supporting Gibbs because his system doesn't work. Or are you done supporting him because his system worked last year and now he's switched to a system that doesn't work? I don't understand what you (and many others) are really complaining about

The poll is going to be very simple, should Gibbs be fired yes or no. That's what our disagreement is about, correct?
I don't think it's that simple. I honestly think that this team is in such a deep hole that we're pretty much screwed either way.
I'm starting to wonder how much respect the players have for Gibbs anymore (remember, they probably weren't Skins fans in the 80s) because of all the double crossing and shadiness that this team has had over the last few seasons. The players just don't really seem to care all that much and losing seems okay to them.
At the same time, I don't think that a complete change would be a good thing, especially on offense. Jason Campbell needs to be in Saunder's system next year so his head doesn't explose. Likewise, if this system really does take a full year to master then next year should be a lot more fun to watch. Maybe a change of defense would be okay since those usually seem a lot smoother.

So basically I don't even think the glass is half empty anymore; I think it's spoiled and rotten and if you drink the little bit that's left you'll get the runs. But, I'll keep going to games at home and I'll keep watching them on TV and I'll ask for overprices Skins crap for X-mas. This team is like my crack addiction.

I don't think it's that simple. I honestly think that this team is in such a deep hole that we're pretty much screwed either way.
I'm starting to wonder how much respect the players have for Gibbs anymore (remember, they probably weren't Skins fans in the 80s) because of all the double crossing and shadiness that this team has had over the last few seasons. The players just don't really seem to care all that much and losing seems okay to them.
At the same time, I don't think that a complete change would be a good thing, especially on offense. Jason Campbell needs to be in Saunder's system next year so his head doesn't explose. Likewise, if this system really does take a full year to master then next year should be a lot more fun to watch. Maybe a change of defense would be okay since those usually seem a lot smoother.

So basically I don't even think the glass is half empty anymore; I think it's spoiled and rotten and if you drink the little bit that's left you'll get the runs. But, I'll keep going to games at home and I'll keep watching them on TV and I'll ask for overprices Skins crap for X-mas. This team is like my crack addiction.

Let's not complicate things, for the purposes of this thread it is that simple.

I've said that I agree with Paul that Gibbs is not getting the job done. However, he wants Gibbs gone and I disagree.

That's the point I am arguing over, very simple. Though I'm not sure if Paul is on the same plain here, as he seems to keep tossing other things into the mix.

I've said that I agree with Paul that Gibbs is not getting the job done. However, he wants Gibbs gone and I disagree.

That's what all of this Gibbs talk comes down to. It's hard to argue that Gibbs is doing well. But, how do people think a first year coach will do? It's amazing to think that these people haven't learned from our past coaching blunders. Don't you guys remember, we had Marvin Lewis (among many other capable coaches through the years)! We let him go. Want to do it again? Where's the logic? :banghead:

That's what all of this Gibbs talk comes down to. It's hard to argue that Gibbs is doing well. But, how do people think a first year coach will do? It's amazing to think that these people haven't learned from our past coaching blunders. Don't you guys remember, we had Marvin Lewis (among many other capable coaches through the years)! We let him go. Want to do it again? Where's the logic? :banghead:

the logic is that the NFL is a lot different than it was 20 years ago. times have changed. so should we... gibbs doesn't know how to coach in the "new" NFL.

gibbs doesn't know how to coach in the "new" NFL.

I reject that argument categorically.

Ahh the salary cap hell take. Haven't heard that one in a while.

Let's hear your analysis of why we are in cap hell and how far in cap hell we are, backed up by the numbers not just your opinion of the matter from what you've heard through the ignorant media who thinks we are always in cap hell or headed towards it.

with the current roster (which is a whopping 4-8) minus the free agents we lose, we are sitting at $105 million for 2007... granted, we may be able to cut a player or two, but we also need to fill a full roster (which, at minumum salaries will cost us anywhere from $7mm - $8mm).

by saying that we're in cap hell, all i'm saying is that we have absolute ZERO flexibility. and that what you see on the field is what we're going to get for at least another year!