Gibbs looks angry during press conference

What TAFKAS said. Griffin, Salave'a, Springs, Wynn, Daniels, and Holdman aren't 'experienced' anymore. They're just old.

Now, do you think Williams forgot how to coach in ONE season? Williams has no control over player personnel.

Give Williams some linebackers, a strong safety who can cover, a free safety who doesn't get called for boneheaded penalties, two corners who can cover, a couple of defensive ends who can pressure the quarterback -- and bingo! He'll be a good coach again!

I know that Williams is very much a part of player personnel discussions, both offense and defense. At least he was going into last season. And drafting Taylor was basically his call. Rogers might have been also.

Anyway, what I'm getting at is I think he's given almost carte blanche control over the defense-scheme and personnel. So I think in some ways he's a bit more responsible for what's happening. That said, no matter how much freedom he's given ultimately there are people above him who have to step in if they sense there are problems. Question is, do they sense it?

I know that Williams is very much a part of player personnel discussions, both offense and defense. At least he was going into last season. And drafting Taylor was basically his call. Rogers might have been also.

Anyway, what I'm getting at is I think he's given almost carte blanche control over the defense-scheme and personnel. So I think in some ways he's a bit more responsible for what's happening. That said, no matter how much freedom he's given ultimately there are people above him who have to step in if they sense there are problems. Question is, do they sense it?

A "part" of player personnel discussions? Now, the way I take that is, Williams has a need for a cornerback, then Gibbs, under the advice of the master of manipulation Vinny Cerrato selects Carlos Rogers -- who got all his information from reading Sports Illustrated's Special NFL Draft issue? Or from his scouting staff?

Either way, the part Williams plays looks to be nothing more than stating a need, and someone tells him about a player that they'll select -- and Williams says, "Okay, sounds good." But if I'm wrong, and his input is much more than that, then why is it structured that way? Why is Williams responsible for scouting?

The people above him need to step in and hire someone who can make smart personnel decisions, and get Williams, and Joe Gibbs back to doing what they do best, coach their players.

Like I said -- it's f'ed up from top to bottom.

A "part" of player personnel discussions? Now, the way I take that is, Williams has a need for a cornerback, then Gibbs, under the advice of the master of manipulation Vinny Cerrato selects Carlos Rogers -- who got all his information from reading Sports Illustrated's Special NFL Draft issue? Or from his scouting staff?

Either way, the part Williams plays looks to be nothing more than stating a need, and someone tells him about a player that they'll select -- and Williams says, "Okay, sounds good." But if I'm wrong, and his input is much more than that, then why is it structured that way? Why is Williams responsible for scouting?

The people above him need to step in and hire someone who can make smart personnel decisions, and get Williams, and Joe Gibbs back to doing what they do best, coach their players.

Like I said -- it's f'ed up from top to bottom.

I don't know why it's structured as such or if it even still is. I just remember last year Gibbs talking about he, Vinny and Gregg sat down to talk about some personnel moves on offense. It might have been the Moss trade, I really don't remember. I found it curious that Williams would sit in on that meeting but I sort of figured it was part of the "heir apparent" training process.

I guess Monte Kiffin has lost his touch too. His unit has dropped from #1 to #24. These things happen, I'll only get worried if Williams can't field a good defense next year.I think theres a significant difference between 30 and 24. If we were the 24th defense, we'd be .500.

Regarding Williams, I think he's too worried about getting back to the defense he had the last two seasons than to actually change something to reestablish respectability. Too much of a perfectionist, not realizing that we'd be winning games if his unit was average.

With the money being paid, and his rep, I would hope that if he had a bunch of camp scrubs, he would have his defense in the top 25. This performance is unexceptable.

I'm not suggesting we fire the guy. Just suggesting that he's a significant part of the problem this season.

And if it is his perfectionism that is forcing his hand, that's a bit ironic because I believe it was his perfectionism that almost single handedly beat the Bucs last year. Who else remembers that he sat Shawn Springs because he thought his gameplan was too good to be beaten. Give him credit for that, he was right.

And now, that same attitude is killing us.

So, Williams doesn't like the fact that he's not a part of the 'coaching club' of Gibbs and Saunders? And now he's not going to coach his very best because of it?

Let's look at it this way - he squeezed more than anyone could have expected out of a no-name defense in '04, had success in '05, but the cracks were starting to show, and besides a boneheaded move to bring in Andre Carter this year, really nothing was done to improve the D-line, and guys like Griffin and Salave'a are officially worn out.

So, do you really think Gregg Williams has forgot how to coach, or decided he's going to suck at his job? Great point. We have done nothing over the last 10 + years to beef up the D Line . Most of the teams that are consistantly in the playoffs draft at least one DL-man , if not two every year . We also do not have a big downhill MLB . We all see the problems the db's have in coverage < - Springs > . Too bad we do not have many draft picks , we could use them . I hope we never draft another player from the U ,,, draft from # 1 OHIO STATE BUCKEYES !!

Great point. We have done nothing over the last 10 + years to beef up the D Line . Most of the teams that are consistantly in the playoffs draft at least one DL-man , if not two every year . We also do not have a big downhill MLB . We all see the problems the db's have in coverage < - Springs > . Too bad we do not have many draft picks , we could use them . I hope we never draft another player from the U ,,, draft from # 1 OHIO STATE BUCKEYES !!

I voiced this opinion earlier that we need to steal a page fromt he Tuna's playbook and rebuild our defensive front seven. Golston looks like he might be a good player, and a good find in the sixth round. We need to rebuild our D-line, our first round pick needs to be either a DT or DE. We need to develop a decent front seven, and then by magic our secondary will look better. Quarterbacks have a knack for throwing interceptions and fumbling when they get sacked or there is a heavy pass rush. The most damning statistic in my mind is that opposing QBs have had a 104.7 QB rating against the Redskins this season, that metric speaks volumes, it says we have no pass rush.

Since we have made the switch to Campbell I think it is time to see what Rocky can do on the D. We have to evaluate our young talent and figure out who is going to be on this team.

I said it in another thread, I think he was calling out Saunders and GW a bit today. Anyone else get that feeling?

I agree with you. I hope he will drop all the Mr. Nice Guy stuff. He's the Hall of Famer, take charge!

The people above him need to step in and hire someone who can make smart personnel decisions, and get Williams, and Joe Gibbs back to doing what they do best, coach their players.

Right. The biggest problem with the defense and offense and the team is player personnel decisions. GW has a large say in decisions. He was the one courting Adam Archuleta. The thing is: Everyone has known that this has been the problem in one form or another ever since Dan Snyder bought the team: No accountability in the Front Office, No GM. This is no way to run a franchise. The personnel moves have destroyed the continuity on this team over and over again. I hope that Gibbs is finally waking up to this fact. He is the only one who can force Snyder to accept a legitimate outsider GM for next year.

The players aren't the same without Gibbs running the show - period. He needs to take back the O.

So go from an offense that has been #1 in the league for years upon years back to an offense that required Clinton Portis to carry the entire load which also netted the lowest playoff offensive totals in NFL history. No thanks. Give Saunders time to get his scheme in. Gibbs had two years and our offense was consistantly shit. Let's try giving someone else with a proven system not designed in the 80s to have two years.