Give Props to Brunell

right, and you throw more when you're behind, which doesn't happen when you're running and playing good defense. that's what the disclaimer is there for, but it's just showing that stats are a bit misleading on their own, since correlation == causation seems to be how the defense of brunell has been argued here, and it's just not logically sound when you can see the quality of the in game performances compared to the stat lines.

but it's still somewhat interesting how less is more, even before the end of the year, with regards to brunell.

right, and you throw more when you're behind, which doesn't happen when you're running and playing good defense. that's what the disclaimer is there for, but it's just showing that stats are a bit misleading on their own, since correlation == causation seems to be how the defense of brunell has been argued here, and it's just not logically sound when you can see the quality of the in game performances compared to the stat lines.

but it's still somewhat interesting how less is more, even before the end of the year, with regards to brunell.
I agree with you about the stat line. I'm not one to jump on that bandwagon and I don't usually defend Brunell with stats, and when I do a disclaimer is attached. I just think we all need to back off Brunell this week, because IMO he's our best chance to win one game at a time.

I think we'll win the majority of our games when utilizing our running game to its max. potential. Look at how effective the play-action was against a very good cowboy defense. It just goes without saying the impact Portis and co. has on this team, both in the running and passing game.

yeah, our run blocking has to be better than it was vs dallas though. 1 yard here, 2 yards there. I mean, portis made a couple wrong cuts, but the OL (and pulling guards) blocked the wrong guy a lot of times from re-watching the game.

yeah, our run blocking has to be better than it was vs dallas though. 1 yard here, 2 yards there. I mean, portis made a couple wrong cuts, but the OL (and pulling guards) blocked the wrong guy a lot of times from re-watching the game.
Totally agree, but at least it keeps the defense loyal to the run, and thus opening up some play action.

When saunders was just busting pass pass pass out of his rear end, kind of made little/no sense... you set the pass up w/ the run, not vice versa.

I think the assumption that he doesn't throw deep has some legitimacy towards it. I think it was my homie tafkas that released the deep ball spread sheet, I'll look for it in a second.

He is however looking better as of late. That extra weak of rest definitly helped him out. He doesn't play well injured ever, and I think he's looking pretty sharp now.Theres a difference between not throwing deep and not throwing deep as often as so and so. If you make a comparison, then you may have a point. But if you say "doesn't throw deep", then all I have to do is show one example and said person is wrong.

It's nitpicky I know, but if you use qualifiers and comparisions, we have a discussion. If you don't, I use stats...and then we have whiny baseless rebuttles.

I hate to be stingy like this (I really do), but if people don't back up their posts with evidence, they shouldn't be able to dismiss stats.

Remember, I don't think the way I do because of the stats, I only use them to reinforce my opinion.

well i showed the not as often and it was a VERY stark contrast. i only used him and peyton cause of the large time investment it takes to go over the game logs and ensure accuracy, but brunell's stats were VERY bad (% deep, attempts deep, completions deep, deep int % etc) when compared, even taking into account that peyton is simply better than anyone else.

Theres a difference between not throwing deep and not throwing deep as often as so and so. If you make a comparison, then you may have a point. But if you say "doesn't throw deep", then all I have to do is show one example and said person is wrong.

It's nitpicky I know, but if you use qualifiers and comparisions, we have a discussion. If you don't, I use stats...and then we have whiny baseless rebuttles.

I hate to be stingy like this (I really do), but if people don't back up their posts with evidence, they shouldn't be able to dismiss stats.

Remember, I don't think the way I do because of the stats, I only use them to reinforce my opinion.
I had remembered off the top of my head that there was something in the spread sheet that proved the point.

Im probably totally wrong, but I couldn't find the spread sheet to respond further soooo yeah. You may be 100% correct... I looked for it and couldn't find it.

Anyone have the link?

and I prefer someone being nit-picky then for me to walk around ignorant...

so no beef there.

while i am aware that Brunell's completion percentage is up yoy, I admit to not knowing the exact numbers associated with an increase in Yards per attempt. I would love to see them. I would suspect that if you were to look at his passes, most would be in the under 10 yards range- with significant yards coming from his recievers gaining YAC. I would not take anything away from Brunell for such plays- as getting the ball to the open man 5 yards away who runs for 20 there after is just as important as tossing for 25. I cannot however, agree that Mark Brunell's numbers have been stellar. What is the basis for comparison? I would argue that you should compare him to other QBs in the league (more specifically- those that aren't in danger of losing their jobs- ie winning). (i have a feeling some will tout the numbers of plummer and mcnair as comparisions- fair enough- but we don't have anyhting close to Broncos or Raven's D). That said, it is entirely possible that we just disagree on the definition of stellar.The part I have bolded is a very important part of the equation. Your statement is 100% correct. As the leader of the offense, Mark Brunell should not be penalized for finding his best player in open space, simply because the pass was short. Simple logic says that if he throws the ball underneath and the back gets 10 yards yac, there probably (as in not every time) was not a better throw to make. The 7.24 yards/attempt figure ranks 7th in the NFL. Rivers, Brees, Huard, Bulger, Peyton Manning, and McNabb are the only QBs who rank ahead of him. Does Brunell have better run after catch recievers than every other QB in the NFL? I'm guessing no. For every Moss and Randle El, There's an Owens and Glenn, or a Walker and Rod Smith (and David Kircus!), or an Ocho Cinco and a Championship. But are passing game out produces those, because we get more yards per attempt then they do which last time I looked was the goal of passing.

I don't remember saying stellar and if I did I was surely refering to THIS game only on his measly 23 attempts. To put it in perspective, in each of the 8 games this year, the opposing QB has thrown 25 or more passes against us despite the 3-5 record. In fact only once were we thrown on less than 29 times. 23 attempts is nothing, and with little YAC help and a lot of drops, Brunell threw for nearly 200 yards. But thats why you use Y/A instead of yards. Even the dudes who developed the weak QB Rating formula figured that one out.

I really really really want that spread sheet link... comon... someone has it..

I know they do...

why am I too dumb to find it.

I'm web savy, but not warpath savy.