Sports Junkies talking about a Campbell rumor

i agree with the brunell ain't getting it done dept... maybe it's all on the coaches, but unless they give another QB to compare apples to apples with, we can't be sure.This is true, there is no foregone conclusion until you get another guy in there, but this is always true in every situation.

I fall in the stick with whats working, change what isn't department.

i agree with the brunell ain't getting it done dept... maybe it's all on the coaches, but unless they give another QB to compare apples to apples with, we can't be sure.

the offense is hurting the defense gtripp, even parcells has said that. I know you love brunell, but you keep throwing up stats that were mainly made in garbage time after the game was already lost as though they mattered.

I mean, i know you love stats, but do you actually see all those 5 yard dump offs when we need 10 yards? do you see him refusing to ever throw over the middle? do you see him NEVER going deep? there's a reason he's not throwing interceptions, and it's cause he seemed to be more concerned with finding a backup job for next year than trying to win.



what f'ing planet are you living on?OK, statless arguement for a second, because I know you actually understand FO and what they do, and trust thier work.

Do I see all those 5 yard dumpoffs? Yes. Do they irritate me, because I know what Brunell and this offense could be capable of? Yes. Do I dwell on them or blame conservative playcalling as the basis for our losing even though that same playcalling is what is making this offense improve? No I do not. I do not expect perfection, and I take the bad with the good.

For those who don't follow:

Good-Offense is significantly better than previous years

Bad-In rare situations, playcalling/3rd down check down philosophy is more questionable than in previous years

I don't even begin to see how someone could say the offense is hurting the defense under the conditions. I mean, I'll watch the O get the ball in horrible field position after a rare defensive stops. I'll watch them put some stuff together, move the ball 30-40 yards. Near midfield, I see the drive stall. Holding or maybe a sack, or even sometimes the dreaded check down. We punt, Frost pins them inside the 20. And then I watch the opposing offense convert 3rd down, after 3rd down, after 3rd down. And all of a sudden, they are in field goal range. Don't believe me? Don't like statistics? That's cool, just go back and read any game thread from one of our losses. People comment on 3rd down conversions by the opponent all the time. It's frusterating as hell. The offense, quite frequently puts the D in ideal field position, virtually never turning the ball over, and very rarely does the D ever capitalize. Thats not the offense hurting the defense. I've can remember one pass broken up in 7 games by this D (Springs against Indy).

I don't love Brunell anymore than the rest of you hate him. Plain and simple.

Ask yourself this, are you actually pissed because our offense, which is a vast improvement over the last two seasons, has a tendency to get conservative on third down? Or are you pissed because the team is 2-5, like I am?

Frankly I'm pissed that the defense gives it up like a slutty highschool cheerleader. Way more pissed about that than the offense.

You say "slutty cheerleader" like its a bad thing.

Eli manning's QB rating is lower than David Carr's, does that make carr better than manning. Carr got benched for Rosenfels. Brunell has had a pretty weak season. I think a good stat would be to check his first downs per completion.QB Rating is a crappy stat, but what it does is shows you very generally how good a QB has performed this season. It will tell you that Brunell is better than Bledsoe...and so will every other stat.

The reason that first downs per completion doesn't exist as a stat is because it has no correllation to successful offense or wins or whatnot. I think you mean first downs per attempt, but even then, you have to account for the fact that not every pass is designed to get the first down every time its run.

What they should do is keep a stat on 3rd/4th downs that is first downs per attempt. Of course, this is already a big section of FO's DVOA ratings, in which we rank quite highly.

Frankly I'm pissed that the defense gives it up like a slutty highschool cheerleader. Way more pissed about that than the offense.Me too.

I don't love Brunell anymore than the rest of you hate him. Plain and simple.

I've said before that you are a very valuable poster and have defended your arguments well, but are you trying to act as a counterweight to the rabid Brunell haters by refusing to concede that he is less than good?

Brunell's greatest virtue is his greatest vice. Brunell is smart enough not to throw careless picks, but he's also so risk-averse that he NEVER takes any chances. Brunell is the anti-Ramsey; whereas Ramsey took too many risks, Brunell takes none. Brunell rarely throws over the middle or deep, he goes for those leftovers (e.g. back in the flat). You simply cannot expect to survive on a dink-and-dunk passing offense; teams, even great ones, cannot CONSISTENTLY sustain 16 play drives.

Trust me, I agree completely, but GTripp will throw numbers at you all day to show you how flawless Brunell's play has been this season.Sorry?

When you respond with opinion, who's gonna win? :argue:

OK, statless arguement for a second, because I know you actually understand FO and what they do, and trust thier work.

Do I see all those 5 yard dumpoffs? Yes. Do they irritate me, because I know what Brunell and this offense could be capable of? Yes. Do I dwell on them or blame conservative playcalling as the basis for our losing even though that same playcalling is what is making this offense improve? No I do not. I do not expect perfection, and I take the bad with the good.

For those who don't follow:

Good-Offense is significantly better than previous years

Bad-In rare situations, playcalling/3rd down check down philosophy is more questionable than in previous years

I don't even begin to see how someone could say the offense is hurting the defense under the conditions. I mean, I'll watch the O get the ball in horrible field position after a rare defensive stops. I'll watch them put some stuff together, move the ball 30-40 yards. Near midfield, I see the drive stall. Holding or maybe a sack, or even sometimes the dreaded check down. We punt, Frost pins them inside the 20. And then I watch the opposing offense convert 3rd down, after 3rd down, after 3rd down. And all of a sudden, they are in field goal range. Don't believe me? Don't like statistics? That's cool, just go back and read any game thread from one of our losses. People comment on 3rd down conversions by the opponent all the time. It's frusterating as hell. The offense, quite frequently puts the D in ideal field position, virtually never turning the ball over, and very rarely does the D ever capitalize. Thats not the offense hurting the defense. I've can remember one pass broken up in 7 games by this D (Springs against Indy).

I don't love Brunell anymore than the rest of you hate him. Plain and simple.

I'm with GTripp on the Brunell situation. I don't think anyone here is arguing Brunell is the second coming of Joe Montana, but he isn't the team's primary problem right now.

What I really question isn't that Brunell is throwing to the checkdown receivers, but that those guys are running 3 yard deep patterns when it's 3rd and 10. I don't know the stats, but that's got to be a pretty low percentage play when you throw for 3 or 4 yards and expect the receiver to make up the rest on 3rd down. Something seems fundamentally flawed in the play calling or game plan when you're consistently short time and again.

I think fans get frusterated and pin the blame on the QB when the play isn't flashy enough. "He's not throwing downfield enough" blah blah blah. To be honest Brunell could be hurting us a LOT more if he were forcing the ball downfield and racking up INTs. Conservative play is probably the best way to go for a lot of QBs, but the fans hate it because it's not real fun to watch. Being careful with the ball is a GOOD thing.

It just blows my mind that people can bitch about Brunell to no end and I guess completely miss some of the glaring problems with the D, coaching and playcalling.

You say "slutty cheerleader" like its a bad thing.

Oh not at all - just a little less appealing when the analogy places a team of 11 sweating, filthy defensive players in the place of the slutty cheerleader.