Patrick Ramsey Vs Philip Rivers

I'd have to say that Rivers, just like any QB drafted in the first round, was a project himself. He didn't go 13-0 in the SEC either. I don't care about his ACC passing yards. But he is better than Ramsey. Where you come from makes you who you are. SEC> ACC> Conference USA. Big Ben is the exception. And Florida Gators.

I don't think we can say difinitavely(sp) that Rivers is better than Ramsey.

What have we seen of Rivers to come to that conclusion?

I'd have to say that Rivers, just like any QB drafted in the first round, was a project himself. He didn't go 13-0 in the SEC either. I don't care about his ACC passing yards. But he is better than Ramsey. Where you come from makes you who you are. SEC> ACC> Conference USA. Big Ben is the exception. And Florida Gators.

I don't really agree with the assertion that the school you come from decides how good you're going to be in the NFL. Chad Pennington, prior to injury, had a very good stretch as a starter and he came from Marshall, a mid-major school at best. So did Leftwich and he's becoming a very good starter also. I think that Rivers would be lucky to reach Leftwich's level. Favre went to Southern Miss, they're not exactly a top school, either. Culpepper played at Central Florida. There's plenty of examples of guys who came from mid majors and went on to have success in the NFL.

I don't think we can say difinitavely(sp) that Rivers is better than Ramsey.

What have we seen of Rivers to come to that conclusion?

And of course that's the crux of the issue. Teams looking to trade a draft choice for a QB as opposed to trying to sign an UFA are confronted with a lot of options this offseason. As homers, we are probably (and not necessarily intentionally) over-valuing the trade value of QB's in hopes of getting more for Ramsey than his actual market value to other teams. Probably the same for Rivers. Drafting is such a crapshoot and otherwise logical rules seem to go by the wayside in valuing draft picks against current players.

Think about it. If you are New Orleans or Tennesse, do you trade your pick for Rivers instead of taking Young or Linehart? No one seems to even be discussing that possibility. Yet, if Rivers were coming out of school NOW, with the same stats and rep as when he did 2 years ago, he would probably be included in the "which QB goes first?" speculation.

Somehow, even though Rivers has been in the league two years and done nothing to demostrate his inability to live up to his original potential (except fail to beat out a pro-bowl, playoff (last year) QB), he is of lesser value than two college QB's each with acknowledged and serious question marks.

At QB, it's all about that shiny new "potential". First round QB's are kinda like new cars - as soon as you drive them off the lot they lose value.

Ramsey is a turnover machine. He gets sacked way too often and throws far too many interceptions. He's never going to be anything more than a spot-starter in this league.

Ramsey has a better TD/INT ratio than about 1/3 of the quarterbacks that saw game time this season(Jake Plummer, David Carr, Joey Harrington, Rex Grossman, Eli Manning, etc.), and he fumbles far less than Daunte Culpepper, Kurt Warner, and Drew Bledsoe. I think calling him a "turnover machine" is a bit of an overstatement.

And of course that's the crux of the issue. Teams looking to trade a draft choice for a QB as opposed to trying to sign an UFA are confronted with a lot of options this offseason. As homers, we are probably (and not necessarily intentionally) over-valuing the trade value of QB's in hopes of getting more for Ramsey than his actual market value to other teams. Probably the same for Rivers. Drafting is such a crapshoot and otherwise logical rules seem to go by the wayside in valuing draft picks against current players.

Think about it. If you are New Orleans or Tennesse, do you trade your pick for Rivers instead of taking Young or Linehart? No one seems to even be discussing that possibility. Yet, if Rivers were coming out of school NOW, with the same stats and rep as when he did 2 years ago, he would probably be included in the "which QB goes first?" speculation.

Somehow, even though Rivers has been in the league two years and done nothing to demostrate his inability to live up to his original potential (except fail to beat out a pro-bowl, playoff (last year) QB), he is of lesser value than two college QB's each with acknowledged and serious question marks.

At QB, it's all about that shiny new "potential". First round QB's are kinda like new cars - as soon as you drive them off the lot they lose value.

Before I even got to the bottom of your post, I was thinking how the previous draft classes are like '04 and '05 models. The car industry uses the term "Nused". Not a lot of milage, but not straight from the factory either.

I think most GMs with an early draft pick or more inclined to go with something from the "factory", if you will. Unless, of course, you're talking about a proven QB, like a Drew Brees.

Ramsey has a better TD/INT ratio than about 1/3 of the quarterbacks that saw game time this season(Jake Plummer, David Carr, Joey Harrington, Rex Grossman, Eli Manning, etc.), and he fumbles far less than Daunte Culpepper, Kurt Warner, and Drew Bledsoe. I think calling him a "turnover machine" is a bit of an overstatement.

OK fine, but saying he's better at taking care of the ball than Plummer, Carr, Harrington, and youngsters Grossman and Manning isn't saying much; and it certainly doesn't make a strong case for why Ramsey should be considered worthy of anything higher than a 3rd round pick, which was my main point.

Rivers is still pretty much an unknown so his value is close to where it started which is 1st round. Ramsey has played a good amount and has been mistake proned which has raised concerns as to whether he can be a starting QB. His value started as a late #1 and has fallen to a mid round pick at best.

Ramsey may be better than Rivers, but the difference is that Ramsey has shown his hand and Rivers has not.

I think we have a winner.

Just to add my own hot air to the discussion...Ramsey has already shown what he can and can't do, Rivers is still relatively unknown.

Plus Rivers was more highly regarded coming out of school.

Im going to expand a touch on what you said Matty. We know essentially what Patrick can't do. And that's put up solid numbers consistently.

I don't think Philip is in the mix for us. But I will say that I would rather have a wild card, then a 3 of clubs.

first of all,no way to have an official debate about this without offiss.second,i cant see any gm in the nfl that would think that p rivers is worth more than ramsey(and for the record,im not in love with #11)at the very least with ramsey you have a qb that has somewhat of an idea what goes on in an actual game,with rivers EVERYTHING is a mystery.plus,he has one of the funkyest throwing motions in the league

Im going to expand a touch on what you said Matty. We know essentially what Patrick can't do. And that's put up solid numbers consistently.

I don't think Philip is in the mix for us. But I will say that I would rather have a wild card, then a 3 of clubs.

Monksdown, some would argue while Patrick hasn't put up consistent numbers he did so while playing under Spurrier's collegiate style offense. And since JG has arrived, Patrick hasn't had much of chance to prove himself otherwise.